User talk:Frido

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[edit] Welcome!

Hi, Frido, and welcome to LiteratePrograms! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a couple of tips for newcomers:

  • If you haven't done so already, please take a look at how to write an article on LiteratePrograms. The markup is basically the same as that used on Wikipedia, but there are a few differences of which you should be aware.
  • Please try to include a descriptive edit summary with every edit you make.
  • Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date.

I hope you enjoy editing here! If you need help, post a question on the Public forum, ask Deco (the site creator), or just ask me on my talk page. -- Crypto 23:08, 11 June 2006 (PDT)

[edit] On the article 'Insertion sort (Lisp)'

Hi, Frido. Thanks for your great contribution on Insertion sort (Lisp). I have fixed a couple of portions in your contribution.

  1. I have added categories for the article.
  2. I have removed your username tag.

Please let me know if you have any questions or problems. I hope you'll continue to contribute. -- Crypto 23:16, 11 June 2006 (PDT)

Oh thanks, I have looked a bit through the examples but am a bit lost currently. So I did it that way. I did not know about the four tildes in a row. So good to know ;-)


[edit] Welcome!

Hi Frido, welcome to LiteratePrograms. I'm Deco, the site creator. Your first contribution looks great, and I'm happy to see you have experience in a number of languages that other users don't. Please just ask if you have any questions or feedback. Deco 19:12, 12 June 2006 (PDT)

[edit] Insertion sort

Hi again Frido. Your new insertion sort contribution looks good too and is a great idea. I don't mind having a little explanation of the language, since insertion sort is often an introductory topic, but I tried to eliminate some of the evangelism, since we don't really want to promote one language over another. Oh, and if you didn't notice, your article was #200! It's now linked off the welcome page along with your name. Congratulations! Deco 13:46, 21 June 2006 (PDT)

I do not think that I did tell you must use Smalltalk and everything else is sh.... The point I wanted to make and which holds is that many do not give it a try. And so I pointed that out clearly. And you removed some really important stuff and the change almost everythng is an object does not hold. Everything is an Object. So I re-established this.

The point of beeing image based it a feature of every Smalltalk in wide-spread use. I really would appreciate if you do not remove such things, if they are that fundamental. Thanks in advance Friedrich.

Frido 23:14, 25 June 2006 (PDT)frido

I'm sorry, I didn't realise that you were responding on this page instead of on Talk:Insertion sort (Smalltalk); my mistake. I just don't feel like this article should be introducing the language Smalltalk - it has more text now regarding the Smalltalk language than the insertion sort algorithm, which is a disproportionate focus. If every introductory algorithm were to include such material, there would be massive duplication of content, and so far none of the other articles are written this way. This is really my fault for not clearly defining a scope for the project, but I would like to hear your argument on why you believe the article should be written with the assumption that the reader knows no Smalltalk, and why you think this belongs in the insertion sort article and not, say, in the Hello World (Smalltalk) article or any other article. (Side note: you're more or less right about objects, but not quite everything in Smalltalk is an object; there are a few small technical exceptions, such as the built-in assignment operator, which is not a message send in Smalltalk but is in Self). Deco 07:28, 26 June 2006 (PDT)

Well it's very likely that most do not know Smalltalk. But I see you point, however it is important for Smalltalk development that you work on it while extending a very large class structure. This is a very different approach and the only other langauge I know of which does the same is Common Lisp. I do know of any other langauge in which you work on one "block" of code. You usually do work on files and that's a totally different approach.

Frido 22:39, 26 June 2006 (PDT)frido

Well, the issue is really one of scope. An article is about a specific implementation of some specific algorithm or application. Generally, except in the most basic articles such as hello world and basic constructs, we tend to assume that the person reading the article already knows the language. Language introductions are important, but they're really outside the scope of the project (at least right now). I deleted your new article because it's not about a specific implementation (and in fact contains no code at all).
However, there is Wikibooks:Programming:Smalltalk, which is very much an introduction to the Smalltalk language and could surely use your help. We could link it from the Smalltalk category here too. Deco 09:49, 27 June 2006 (PDT)

[edit] Contents of deleted article

I'm pasting the contents of the deleted article here in case you want to use it on Wikibooks:

Smalltalks in some ways the predecessors of working in integrated development environments. The special tools available in nearly every Smalltalk are, Browsers (be it for classes, categories, methods). A sort of command line tool in which you can type some Smalltalk and evaluate it.

And the most distinct features: "Smalltalks are image based", that will say you do not work in categories like files directores (although you can file out sources to files), you write code while extending the existing (usually very very large class structure, in the case of my squeak the class count is aroung 6000!!). Classes are to some extend always "open". If you find a function which fits in the Array class then you do not derive the Array class and extend it you go straigt the to the Array class and you add the methods there. See e.g the Insertion sort (Smalltalk).

However because of this image based approach you need tools to create diffs from the diverse images. The most Smalltalks have some tools for that, and you can see them as a sort of revision control system. However this is very tightly bind to the Smalltalk development environement and one has to get used to it.

Common Lisp is works partly the same way. You can dump images also, but the code is more traditional kept in files.

It wasn't clear to me that one can assume this kind of knowledge. Of course it is not needed if you assume that. I think I understand your point. However I feel this makes for much less useless wiki. But be it as is, it's your decision

Regards 22:45, 28 June 2006 (PDT)frido

I understand your position, Frido, and it's not that I don't think such information should be published, but just that it should be published on another wiki like Wikibooks or Wikipedia and linked from here, as these projects are already set up to cover language descriptions and tutorials - attempting to broaden our scope to include these here would just create more redundant effort. I really do encourage you to publish your work on the other wikis though, which are after all currently more popular than this one anyway. Deco 04:56, 29 June 2006 (PDT)